Comments on the new edit form

Comments on the new edit form

Posted 13. Aug 2013, 10:53:58

Please post all your comments, concerns and bug reports about the new edit form in this thread.

Please also have a look at the Blog Post on the new edit form.

Thanks!

Last edited 13. Aug 2013, 13:01:17

Re: Comments on the new edit form

Posted 13. Aug 2013, 11:26:51

It sucks.

Re: Comments on the new edit form

Posted 13. Aug 2013, 11:32:22

There was an error we've just fixed. Could be a bit more precise on what you don't like?

Re: Comments on the new edit form

Posted 13. Aug 2013, 12:16:20

It‘s still the 3-step process when adding or editing a setlist? I can‘t seem to change that in my settings?

I‘m currently fixing all of Reese Mastin‘s covers of “Joker & The Thief“ to “Jokes & the Thief”. It takes three mouseclicks to get to the setlist songs edit page, and from that page I can‘t see the the Submit button without zooming out 3x on my 16 inch laptop screen.

Last edited 13. Aug 2013, 12:16:59

Re: Comments on the new edit form

Posted 13. Aug 2013, 12:18:37

I‘m currently fixing all of Reese Mastin‘s covers of “Joker & The Thief“ to “Jokes & the Thief”. It takes three mouseclicks to get to the setlist songs edit page

No it shouldn't. Just use the “Edit Setlist” link on the setlist itself, not the “Edit Setlist Info” link in the artist box. With the second link you'll get directly to the songs page.

Thanks for the feedback, we might have to change something there if it leads to confusion…

Re: Comments on the new edit form

Posted 13. Aug 2013, 12:25:43

No it shouldn‘t. Just use the “Edit Setlist“ link on the setlist itself, not the “Edit Setlist Info” link in the artist box. With the second link you‘ll get directly to the songs page.
Thanks for the feedback, we might have to change something there if it leads to confusion…

Thank you. But that's also going to get annoying – I'd have to scroll down and locate the Edit Setlist link. This would be especially slow when doing batch edits like with Reese Mastin. Up until now, I could just keep my cursor in (roughly) the same place on top of the Edit Setlist link the entire time: Left click, Ctrl-Tab. Left click, Ctrl-Tab. etc.

I think the new set-out is great, but I don't think it will be as time-efficient for doing these sort of things as before.

Edit: (Also, as you can see, the strikethrough syntax on the forums isn't especially great either…)

Last edited 13. Aug 2013, 12:27:19

Re: Comments on the new edit form

Posted 13. Aug 2013, 12:32:48

I think the new set-out is great, but I don‘t think it will be as time-efficient for doing these sort of things as before.

It's not the final version and therefore up for discussion :-)
The intention of course never was to make it harder for power editors to edit setlists. That's why the powereditor form was introduced. However we believe that the new form is a lot easier to use for new/inexperienced users. And also for mobile users.

An idea that comes to my mind (and was suggested by moderators) is to create user scripts, e.g. GreaseMonkey scripts that “power editors” could install to make editing even faster…

Btw for batch edits of the same songs it might be easier to post it to the forum and let a moderator or admin do it. There are moderator tools for exact this case.

Re: Comments on the new edit form

Posted 14. Aug 2013, 3:44:20

Hello michi. I just got to say I'm not a big fan of the new 3-Step process. Three pages take three times as long to add one show. I don't see how this would make it easier for less experienced users to add shows.

Also, the second page has nothing but 'optional' information! I don't think 'optional' information should get it's own page. The only things listed are 'Tour' and 'Festival'. I'm afraid that's just going to lead more people to put in bad tour names (like “Supporting Whoever”, “Glastonbury Festival”, “with U2″, etc.). If Tours are going to get their own page there should probably be something written about them in the guidelines.

I do however like the new options at the end to add another show by that band or venue.

Last edited 14. Aug 2013, 4:04:49

Re: Comments on the new edit form

Posted 14. Aug 2013, 4:45:29

A couple more points:
When editing a setlist, clicking the green Artist Name or Venue used to select the entire text in the text entry field. This was very helpful when fixing the spelling of an artist's name or changing it from a band performance to a solo performance (eg. State Radio to Chadwick Stokes), and fixing the choice of venue.

Also, when selecting a festival to add to a setlist, now that the choice of festivals are listed on multiple pages, I can't efficiently use use my browser's search function to check if the festival already exists.
Sidenote: For the same reason, I also don't like the way my past attendances are listed on multiple pages on my profile. I used to be able to use my browser's search function to locate concert I was at. Now, I have to sift through the multiple pages of concerts I've attended. (I am aware of – and do use – the “attendee:(***)” syntax in the setlist search box, but sometimes this isn't the most convenient/efficient way to achieve what I want.)

I completely agree with you ExecutiveChimp. I'm about to add blank setlist for all of artists at the Southbound Festival 2012 in Australia:
http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/news/31083/Southbound-2012-playing-times
I'm really dreading how long it will take to add all of these, now that I must click Next/Submit three times per artist set…

However we believe that the new form is a lot easier to use for new/inexperienced users. And also for mobile users.

I appreciate this, and that's why I said earlier that I can see where the new layout would have its advantages.

An idea that comes to my mind (and was suggested by moderators) is to create user scripts, e.g. GreaseMonkey scripts that “power editors” could install to make editing even faster…

I don't understand how scripts would be implemented, but if it works, then I'm sure I would get the hang of it.

Btw for batch edits of the same songs it might be easier to post it to the forum and let a moderator or admin do it. There are moderator tools for exact this case.

I don't think that would be the most efficient way of doing it. That would get two people involved, whereas in the past I could do it rather efficiently myself. Maybe a nice solution would be to make me a Moderator/Roadie? :)

Re: Comments on the new edit form

Posted 14. Aug 2013, 8:40:21

Thanks for your comments! Let me address the points, starting with

ExecutiveChimp

Three pages take three times as long to add one show.

Not having to select 2 out of artist, venue and date and clicking continue (or hitting enter) should be faster than having to select the three. If not, we have to find ways to make it faster.

I don‘t see how this would make it easier for less experienced users to add shows.

With the growing amount of mobile users, three short forms are easier to handle than one long form. The old form had also a lot of not intuitive stuff in it, like displaying an error at the very top, completely out of sight. Or reloading the festival after selecting the date and venue.

Also, the second page has nothing but ‘optional‘ information! I don‘t think ‘optional‘ information should get it‘s own page.

Why not?

I‘m afraid that‘s just going to lead more people to put in bad tour names

That's speculation, but you're right, we have to keep an eye on this.

If Tours are going to get their own page there should probably be something written about them in the guidelines.

Yes! Maybe we should discuss this in another thread? I personally would love to define guidelines for tours.

I do however like the new options at the end to add another show by that band or venue.

Thanks! That's only the first version though. Feel free to add suggestions on how to enhance the options.

pomes27

When editing a setlist, clicking the green Artist Name or Venue used to select the entire text in the text entry field.

We're using the same components in the wizard so they should behave exactly the same way, but I'll check this after submitting this post.

For the same reason, I also don‘t like the way my past attendances are listed on multiple pages on my profile.

But you're aware that you can use the dropdown choice at the top of your concerts to display up to 500 attendances on one page?

Also, when selecting a festival to add to a setlist, now that the choice of festivals are listed on multiple pages, I can‘t efficiently use use my browser‘s search function to check if the festival already exists.

We could of course display the same dropdown to show more than the default amount of festivals as is on the user attendances page.

I completely agree with you ExecutiveChimp. I‘m about to add blank setlist for all of artists at the Southbound Festival 2012 in Australia

With venue & date preselected? I'm really not sure if that takes a lot longer. But how could we improve this? Adding the possibility for power users to skip page 2?

That would get two people involved, whereas in the past I could do it rather efficiently myself.

Editing single songs should be as least as efficient as it was before. The only problem seems to be the scrolling down, or am I missing anything else?

Maybe a nice solution would be to make me a Moderator/Roadie? :)

That would be a solution for you (write details about you to our contact e-mail address about this), but not for all other power editors struggling with the 3-step “wizard”.

Thanks for your comments! To be clear about it again: the old form won't come back, but the new one should be at least as efficient as the old one, so if you have more concrete suggestions on how to improve the wizard, now's the right time.

cheerio

Last edited 14. Aug 2013, 8:40:40

Re: Comments on the new edit form

Posted 14. Aug 2013, 9:34:27

Well, when this new adding wizard was entering its beta-stage testing this spring, I've predicted lots of complaints from everyone about these two additional clicks and windows now involved in the 'creating the new setlist' process based on my own preferences about how it should be. This discussion went on in the mods forum, concealed from the public view, and from now on, I guess, it's raging here for all to see. Well… Still have to say that the only people who seem to think that the new wizard is quicker and more convinient than the old form are its creators ;) I wonder if at least one person from the active contributors will find the new routine attractive as advertised and report about in this thread.

But anyway, everyone now have their iPhones and similiar devices, posting stuff and taking pictures even from their toilets, let alone concert shows, so it's hard to blame admins who took notice of the masses, adapting the site for the needs of mobile / inexpirieced users.

My suggestions.

1) Make the 'Edit Comment Autocorrection Notification Submit Preview' form available down there from the first step for posting blank setlists.

2) Combine the step two and step one and make it a two step wizard. It really seems irrelevant to regard tours and festivals as a separate step as ExecutiveChimp already mentioned in this thread. I agree with that.

Last edited 14. Aug 2013, 9:41:49

Re: Comments on the new edit form

Posted 14. Aug 2013, 9:53:19

Still have to say that the only people who seem to think that the new wizard is quicker and more convinient than the old form are its creators ;)

See my comments above. If we wouldn't doubt that, why would we look for suggestions and improvements? This is as far as the speed is concerned. Convenience is a whole different topic. Auto-completion of songs and sorting by drag&drop have a different level of convenience, especially for users with touch screens.

1) Make the ‘Edit Comment Autocorrection Notification Submit Preview‘ form available down there from the first step for posting blank setlists.

Could be a possible additional features for power-editors. Edit: I really like this one, as this combined with the power-editor form after submitting could really improve the efficiency

2) Combine the step two and step one and make it a two step wizard. It really seems irrelevant to regard tours and festivals as a separate step as ExecutiveChimp already mentioned in this thread. I agree with that.

That's difficult to do as the tour and festival get pre-selected depending on venue and date. And we only know venue and date after the first step (the old form used a dirty, error-prone hack to load the festival while editing).
What might be a possibility (needs some further checking though): swap the second and the third step, and make the whole tour/festival step optional.

Last edited 14. Aug 2013, 9:54:57

Re: Comments on the new edit form

Posted 14. Aug 2013, 10:39:24

Yeah, I think the additional button 'Continue to songs' and the submit form appering altogether on the first step will benefit the new wizard a lot.

Update – But this still does not resolve the problem mentioned above by pomes27 about creating the blank setlists with one click like before. Because a tour name is usually involved in that process.

Update 2 – Now if I had to close my browser and entered the site again let's say after 10 min to add a new setlist, I have to enter my location again. This is very irritating.

Update 3 – And one more thought. I think that one of the main flaws setlist.fm has at the moment is its unresponsivness to customization. Instead of an endless search for a golden middle ground and arguing in the forums about what should be left and what should be let go, I think the site would benefit greatly from adapting the fine tuning system. Some examples: a) a user like pomes27 doesn't like the new form – let him uncheck it in the settings and use the other one, older or more simplistic, or both. b) a user like *** doesn't understand the tour section in the wizard – let him uncheck it in the settings and he will never see that step again. c) a user ### does not enter the site from his pc, he only uses his phone to update the shows he attended from time to time – let him use some kind of a light mobile version, like the wap protocol was in the old days, instead of arguing with the pc users about what the mobile users would like design wise. And so on. At the moment there's like four or five options in the settings with the opportunity to tune something to one's likings. It's far too little for a large portal like setlistfm. One can't please everyone. Therefore you have to make it customisable to reach a big audience and not try hard to sit on two chairs at the same time. That's my opinion at least.

Last edited 14. Aug 2013, 11:39:41

Re: Comments on the new edit form

Posted 14. Aug 2013, 11:34:47

One thing that I would suggest for the TAB/autocomplete feature is to recognize non-accented characters when filling in songs that have special characters such as accents or umlauts. For example for Keane, if I type “cafe”, the autocomplete should suggest “Sovereign Light Café”.

Re: Comments on the new edit form

Posted 14. Aug 2013, 12:43:54

We've just had a long discussion and came up with a solution that I'll describe after addressing your points:

Update 2 – Now if I had to close my browser and entered the site again let‘s say after 10 min to add a new setlist, I have to enter my location again. This is very irritating.

The page currently asks once per session. We could extend this to once a week or so. I hope you didn't have to enter your location but just click on 'ok'?

Update 3 – And one more thought. I think that one of the main flaws setlist.fm has at the moment is its unresponsivness to customization.

I'm sorry I have to contradict you on this one, but to implement a feature once for all users is part of the setlist.fm strategy to use the limited resources effeciently. There is a reason why setlist.fm went for a responsive design and not for a dedicated mobile website. Moreover, the more user settings the more complicated the whole thing gets. As we know from our statistics, there are hardly any users (compared to the total amount of users) who use the current settings. And one has to be pretty deep 'into' setlist.fm to know what the benefits of the settings are. Please don't get me wrong, we've had discussions about more customisation, dedicated mobile pages and features. But in order to further improve the site and not having to spend the majority of the time fixing bugs, we chose to go this way.

Edit (sorry forgot this one)

One thing that I would suggest for the TAB/autocomplete feature is to recognize non-accented characters when filling in songs that have special characters such as accents or umlauts.

Thanks, sounds like a bug.

Of course it's very important to know what you're struggling with and what you would like to see improved. So here's our suggestion to address the above issues:

The two major changes to the current wizard are:
* The setlists gets submitted (saved) after the first step
* The second step will be performed automatically, as this optional step, as you all said correctly, doesn't apply in most of the cases.

The rest are just adaptions and results of the two changes above that give you the powers to use the form efficiently:
* you'll get to the song page after the first step, but the setlist will already be saved
* there will be the “power-editor” box, with a different name though, in a box on the song page
* additional “helper links” on the first page

Last edited 14. Aug 2013, 12:47:17

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