Moderator Abuse of Power

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 11 Dec 2019, 22:19:34

Oh boy are you doing this wrong. Provide points, proof, screenshots, stuff. Anything except what you did here. Youre not giving any reason, and no one is gonna hear your complaint if you dont provide more evidence and more, well, stuff in general.

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 8 Sep 2020, 8:03:10

There's a lot of talk about 'rules as explained in the Guidelines.' The definition of the word guideline does not include any sense of requirement. There is at least one moderator on this site that seems to think a Guideline is Policy and gets belligerent about it. It makes for an unpleasant, non-community experience.

Maybe their needs to be a set of Guidelines for how Moderators interact with contributors. The more they make it a drag, the less this site fosters its value.

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 8 Sep 2020, 8:07:50

There's a lot of talk about 'rules as explained in the Guidelines.' The definition of the word guideline does not include any sense of requirement.

Following the guidelines is required. We could rename them rules, as that's basically what they are. Please follow the guidelines and also listen to the advice of moderators. Saves a lot of time and trouble.

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 8 Sep 2020, 8:10:21

Don't call them guidelines. Learn what it means to have a policy.

Would be great if you could address the atmosphere of belligerence. If not, expect a reduction in contribution

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 8 Sep 2020, 8:19:33

Don't call them guidelines.

They were guidelines in the early days of this website and gradually grew into a rule set. You're actually the first one to bring this up, but it's a valid point. Thanks.

Would be great if you could address the atmosphere of belligerence.

Some moderators might come across like that, but that's never intended. A lot of them aren't English native speakers and simply get their point across matter-of-factly. One of the most important aspects of this website is data quality and consistency. This is why users and moderators are so adamant about following the guidelines. Adding songs in the wrong format messes with the statistics and decreases the data quality.

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 8 Sep 2020, 8:23:54

I appreciate your response.

Moderators need to appreciate that contributors (1) may have data that can add value and (2) may not have the time to perfect the data entry.

After entering a setlist from a 30 year-old show that had no data and being told “You did this wrong.' Can make a contributor feel less than appreciated. Your contributors are your asset. Your data quality people are also an asset, but there's no reason for them to expect perfection from someone not in that role.

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 8 Sep 2020, 8:33:32

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just wrote.

“You did this wrong.' Can make a contributor feel less than appreciated.

Definitely. There's a world of difference between “You did this wrong” and “Welcome to setlist.fm and thanks for your contribution! I corrected the medley for you as the guidelines/rules say that …”. There's really no harm in adding “please”, “thank you” and helpful pointers.

setlist.fm isn't that easy for new contributors with all the special markup tags. But a new edit form has been added some weeks ago that takes the burden from knowing most guidelines by heart as it automatically applies them.

Anyway, thanks for your suggestions. I'll pass them on to the moderators.

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 8 Sep 2020, 8:38:59

I'd appreciate it if you could also review some of the recent profile comments from Dirkvandamme. Phrases like “don't come complaining in two years time because someone might have deleted 'your' setlist.” come off as anything but collaborative.

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 28 Sep 2020, 9:04:48

Let's solve this issue here once and for all. dirkvandamme should join the discussion here in this very topic.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to put the source problem differently, maybe it makes sense to you then:

For example this edit where you changed the cover artist of the song “Pigliate 'na pastiglia”. Your source comment was “Renato Carosone cover”. That's not a good edit comment. We can see what you've changed, not why you've changed it. A better edit comment would have been to provide a link to a source that states why it's a “Renato Carosone” cover and not a “Renato Carosone ed il suo Sistetto” song.

Please see the guidelines on sources and the FAQ on sources for more details.

Last edited 28 Sep 2020, 9:06:39

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 28 Sep 2020, 11:13:49

Especially in my two latest post on the profile page https://www.setlist.fm/user/Savonarolla I made clear that his sources are not valid. (Already asked on Feb 22, and possibly before)
Even after those two remarks, he continued ignoring my remarks. So I'd like to return the question, is the user abusing our faith and guidelines?
To be honest I don't follow all forums (my name is not Argus and I'm certainly not a God), so I don't know where Savonarolla posted his remarks against me. The remarks are indelible so a third person can see what one has written and how. (See also my post May 31st about deleting messages)
It seems the only thing to have you react or complain is act severely, and then you wonder why your setlists are deleted without any reason. If you would have followed the guidelines this would not have happened.
Can you give me an exemple of where I write rudely?
To be honest when I appointed Savonarolla to roadie it was by mistake (just like at one moment the newly South American moderator appointed another user also to roadie. Before I could undo this he already remarked his promotion and I didn't dare to undo this. After he deleted lots of messages (which he was able to do as a roadie) and I asked him not to do this, which he ignored also, I degraded him to user.
Also the fact that Savonarolla created a second user name long ago to avoid some problems or make his arguments stronger doesn't help to build faith.
Savonarolla may have good knowledge about certain things, but this website is a community, where it's better to share information with others so they may learn something from the information given.

E.g. when I change the way of writing of English or other languages I put the link instead of writing capitalisation. When one sees why it is changed the user may remember when in future he writes a new songtitle, so they don't have to be corrected afterwards.

Last edited 28 Sep 2020, 11:16:13

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 29 Sep 2020, 11:33:27

Let's transpose the situation to some real world reality. Maybe you'll understand why I blocked you.
Since February one was gently asked when editing or adding a setlist to provide a source. Maybe it was not visible enough, but I told you several times. So you were driving through an orange traffic light.
Since about one month it's impossible to add or change something without a valuable source. I think I gave you on several setlists the link https://www.setlist.fm/guidelines#sources
Here is the information in the link
It is mandatory to add sources to all of your edits. Not only can your edit be verified for other users, it can also avoid unnecessary discussions and save a lot of time.

Be sure to explain why you edited the setlist. Don't explain what you've edited as this is obvious to the viewer. For example “added a song” is not a valid source. Examples for valid sources are (among others):

Links to official websites (e.g. artists posting their setlists on their websites) Links to social media channels (e.g. fans posting images of the setlist) Links to setlist scans Links to videos of the concert “I was there” – if you were at the concert and remember the song being played

Adding enough dots like you did or just mentioning what you just did is not a valid source, like described above.
I asked you to add real sources on at least two occasions on your profile page. You neglected to follow this.
So you were driving through a red traffic light and were warned about it.

Would you drive through a red traffic light several times in real life? Don't think so, so we tool away your driving license here.

Last edited 29 Sep 2020, 11:35:07

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 22 Mar 2021, 22:30:32

Any of the administrators didn't help me with my “This setlist has been locked for editing by a moderator” issue… i never even added a setlist before.

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 9 Nov 2021, 13:48:09

This is a reply to this post in the General erros topic int Website Support forum. We moved it over here as this is more on topic and to take the load off an already busy topic. So all following quotes come from the topic linked above.

First off @lyramsr, I agree with everything you wrote and I understand 100% why you're upset. Here's my take on this to resolve this issue and any similar issues in the future:

To cut him some slack, dirkvandamme deals with a lot of cases where guest appearances are wrongly added as separate setlists. I totally understand that mistakes like this can happen, this can't be avoided when performing over 170k edits and is part of the game. So, making mistakes isn't a problem per se. What causes problems most of the time is how a mistake is handled. IMHO in this case a simple “Sorry, you're right – my fault. I didn't check the source and was under the impression that it's only been a guest appearance.” would have spared us three quite some time (e.g. this reply wouldn't be necessary).

As for the blocking threats: unnecessary, especially for a 7+ year user with 700+ edits without any problems (that I'm aware of). This calls for a bit more fijngevoeligheid (translated from German, there's no 1:1 translation in English ;)).

The Facebook source: that's a non-issue. It's a public event page, no account required – a click on the source would have made this obvious. setlist.fm is pretty adamant when it comes to providing sources, the least we can do is to check them before deleting.

tl;dr mistakes happen, apologising almost always helps, threats usually don't and cause problems

I’d also like for the setlist to be restored

I can do this, but it'll be my name as editor then however as this is a partly manual task. If you want you can of course re-add it yourself, you might be faster than me since you know the details. And now that we've cleared the issue it won't be deleted anymore.

and for dirkvandamme’s threatening comment to be removed from my profile, since I cannot do that myself

I'll take care of that.

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 9 Nov 2021, 14:43:03

I don't mind not being the setlist creator, however if it's a hassle I can do it when I get home. Thanks for all this!

Re: Moderator Abuse of Power

Posted 16 May 2022, 7:54:31

Thanks for raising the issue in here! I pinged the moderator to reply to your questions in this forum topic.

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