Scheduled Start Times

Hi there,

Thank you for the detailed description of the issue. Let's go over the points one by one:

Shouldn't it be the other way around? I've never seen separate times for individual acts. If they are ever listed, it is probably extremely rare.

They're actually not that rare, “scheduled start time” is the one time of the four times (doors, scheduled start, actual start and actual end) that gets provided the most on setlist.fm. Scheduled start times get posted all over social media these days by artists.

So logically the website is saying NOT to list a scheduled start time for “big name acts” which have another act playing with it. If that is the case, why ask for a “scheduled start time”? The door time and actual start and end times are the only times that are really known at the end of the concert.

The website doesn't say that though. You can list times for any artist if the scheduled time is known. The website basically says “only list times that you know”. And if a time isn't known, then don't add it.

Rather than say the the exception is one not covered by the guidelines, the standard should be that the start time is the same time for all acts for the show which the venue lists (i.e. the time the venue says the show starts).

Generally all information added to a setlist is meant to be information for the individual setlist/performance. This means all songs, information and times are relevant/valid for the individual performance. “Doors” is usually valid for all setlists of that event, but start times are not. E.g. start time of the support act isn't relevant data to be added to the main act.

Other examples of why the current standard is not practical are when there are group shows such as festivals,

I disagree on this one. It's festivals (Glastonbury, Reading, FiberFib, Rock im Park, Donauinselfest, …) where the scheduled start times of each individual act tend to be known beforehand, as they have to have a pretty rigid time regime to get all acts through the day.

This website requires some sort of validation when listing multiple shows for the same day. When listing multiple shows for a day for an artist, we are required to provide some sort of verification for those multiple shows.

Yes, set times are one way to do this. However any set time might do and you can always add one of the other three there. Again, if the scheduled start time is not known, then simply don't provide it.

To end with a bit of background: The individual scheduled start time has been added in part to find out how punctual artists are. Who lets their audience wait the most, who comes on early and who's the most reliable. Stuff like that. Therefore it always linked to the individual performance, not the event.

When creating setlists, can you add a box for Doors time in the “optional” Add Set Times link? Currently it only lists 3 boxes: Scheduled Start, Actual Start and Actual End times. All 4 boxes currently used for the “Edit set times” option would be appropriate to include as part of that optional link when creating a setlist.

Please use the new editor to add setlists (on desktop there's an info bar on the very top of the screen, otherwise you can always change it in your settings). The doors time is available there.

Thanks again for the details and concerns. It's really appreciated!

Sorry to sound argumentative,

No need to apologise. Discussions like this are very important for the site. Helps to discover shortcomings and figure out improvements. Before going over your points, I'd like to point out that I understand the concern. You think that the whole concert should be viewed as one entity and ideally all times should be visible on the page of the main act. By allowing the “scheduled start time” for the main act to be the time when the music starts in general, we'd not only have more correct scheduled start times but also more valuable information on the page of the main act. Something like this, right?

but I just don't believe any artist is posting “scheduled” times of their sets.

Frank Turner does this loads of times. Skinny Lister do it for most of their concerts. And there are many, many others who do the same. So please believe it.

It is a safe bet that the “scheduled” start times being posted here by other users are simply the scheduled times of the concerts

Following your argument that no artist posts their scheduled times, this is of course a valid conclusion. And of course it might be true that some scheduled times are in deed the wrong ones, the ones on the ticket.

From there the other artists can stick to some sort of schedule, but I did not know that info is published for the attendees.

The exact scheduled time of every artist is known at most of the major festival.

For concerts with only a warmup act and main act, we can assume start times of the main act but cannot list them as scheduled. For example, if a concert is scheduled for 8 pm, you can assume the main act will probably start at 9 pm, but that is only assumed based on experience. We cannot list that 9 pm time as “scheduled.” But it would not surprise me if some are listing assumed times as “scheduled.”

That's correct. As written before, if the scheduled start time of the main act is not known, then don't add it. Please don't assume anything, it's better to leave it empty instead. If the start time on the ticket is the start time of the support act, then please add it at the support act's setlist. This way a running order can be easier added later on, should it be decided to add this on setlist.fm.

I have seen some users here who create Tour names that don't exist and assign them to various artists.

That's true, I have seen users doing worse things on setlist.fm in the last thirteen years. Stuff for a book :)… but anyway the thing is, adding scheduled start dates to the main act that are actually for the support act is not backed by the guidelines and also the label in the edit form says something different. It says “The scheduled/intended stage time of the artist” when adding a setlist and “The scheduled/intended stage time of The Rolling Stones.” when editing a setlist. If a user now chooses to add the wrong time, then it's a mistake. I already explained in the last post why the scheduled time is part of the artist's setlist and not of the event.

As I said earlier, it seems we are tasked to only list the scheduled start time of the opening act, and I will comply, as illogical as it is.

Thank you. I have to differ on the illogical part though.

For artists that have multiple sets, there is no provision for setting any times (scheduled or actual) for multiple sets, is there?

Multiple “sets” on setlist.fm mean that they're all part of the same concert. A “set” is actually a subset of the setlist. E.g. an acoustic performance. See the guidelines on sets. If you mean adding set times for sets that have an interval/break, then the answer is no, there's no feature to add set times for that. In contrast, if there's a matinee and an evening show then two separate setlists should be added.

Thank you for taking the time for this discussion!