Songs of classical composers

Re: Songs of classical composers

Posted 10 Jun 2016, 21:36:43

Re: Songs of classical composers

Posted 14 Jul 2016, 2:53:19

I'd like numerous classical pieces to be assigned to an album in any way. Of course, since most of these classical composer died long before the invention of records.

Let's say i want to assign all the pieces of The Magic Flute by Mozart to any album containing the whole opera. (in german of course)
https://musicbrainz.org/search?query=die+zauberflote&type=release&method=indexed

Is there one i should consider over the others? There is an album credited to Mozart alone but there is no albums by Mozart that i could assign the songs to. So which one would? Most of the release contains numerous performer but it's the same for George Gershwin yet there are numerous choices when it comes to assign songs by him.

Re: Songs of classical composers

Posted 14 Jul 2016, 7:46:16

Mozart directly simply has too many releases on musicbrainz for the setlist.fm system to handle (that's why he never originally existed in our database).

Feel free to assign his pieces to any of the release groups in your search results. It may be tricky because they are all collaboration albums, but I'm sure you'll find one which does work (and it doesn't really matter which one, so long as you use the same for each piece in the opera).

Re: Songs of classical composers

Posted 14 Jul 2016, 12:37:48

So i believe i'm going have to do it all myself right?

You won't help me to assign all the 78 pieces of Le Nozze di Figaro to Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart; Chor und Orchester der Deutschen Oper Berlin, Karl Böhm

First act down, three more to go.
Sheesh!

Last edited 14 Jul 2016, 12:47:24

Re: Songs of classical composers

Posted 14 Jul 2016, 14:23:38

This is going to be very hard, you pick one conducter, you twist his name twenty-five times and you may come up with something.

Re: Songs of classical composers

Posted 1 Sep 2016, 0:41:41

The vast majority of them are wrong
http://www.setlist.fm/setlists/giuseppe-verdi-1bd66580.html

Verdi is no conductor

maybe there should be an artist called Random conductor because most of these great composer, they never conducted the premiere on any of their operas. Mozart did but he's the exception.

Last edited 1 Sep 2016, 0:46:22

Re: Songs of classical composers

Posted 27 Dec 2016, 16:57:20

New to the forum and late to this conversation.

I wanted to get clarification on one post relating to TSO's interpretation of songs.

This, by all counts and measures, is a cover of O Fortuna, of the opera by Carl Orff. So should be corrected to:
http://www.setlist.fm/stats/songs/carl-orff-7bd4ce90.html?song=O+Fortuna (and it is only the song, not the full opera, so therefore title should be “O Fortuna” and not “Carmina Burana” -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Fortuna)

The question is that the song on their Night Castle album is actually titled “Carmina Burana” and has nearly the same orchestration between the album and the live performances.

Another big one from the TSO:
http://www.setlist.fm/stats/songs/b-bumble-and-the-stingers-63d7bacf.html?song=Nutrocker This is a version of the Nutcracker suite by Tsaikovsky, (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nut_Rocker) which already has an entry here:
http://www.setlist.fm/stats/songs/pyotr-ilyich-tchaikovsky-13d7c165.html?song=Nutrocker (though technically speaking that is just another version of this: http://www.setlist.fm/stats/songs/pyotr-ilyich-tchaikovsky-13d7c165.html?song=Nutcracker+Suite)

The real question is at what point does the ownership of the interpretation differ enough to allow the song to remain as a stand alone? Neil Diamond, for example, wrote, recorded and performed but then after UB40 covered the song Neil Diamond began playing using the UB40 interpretation.

If the policy is to go back to the original title that is being interpreted then there would need to be a number of changes to the TSO set lists beyond Nutrocker (from the Night Castle album) and Carmina Burana (from the Night Castle album).

I ask for the matter of clarity and accuracy…and so I don't spend time trying to “correct” things only to be going against the policy of the site admins.

Re: Songs of classical composers

Posted 28 Dec 2016, 2:18:25

The real question is at what point does the ownership of the interpretation differ enough to allow the song to remain as a stand alone? Neil Diamond, for example, wrote, recorded and performed but then after UB40 covered the song Neil Diamond began playing using the UB40 interpretation.
If the policy is to go back to the original title that is being interpreted then there would need to be a number of changes to the TSO set lists beyond Nutrocker (from the Night Castle album) and Carmina Burana (from the Night Castle album).

You highlighted a nice grey area in the interpretation of the rules here. A song should be credited to the original writer/composer, regardless of a new arrangement. Now if the new arrangement comes with a different name, then what to do. In the case of Nutrocker vs Nutcracker suite it makes sense to distinguish the B Bumble arrangement from the Tchaikovsky arrangement, so while merging the two instances of Nutrocker, I have left the titles to distinguish between the arrangements.

Carmina Burana is a bit more difficult, because 1) it is pretty much the only Carl Orff composition that ever gets covered, and 2) since arrangements across bands differ so little you would want to see the the total amount of times the song is played in the statistics, and not have separate instances of the same song played by TSO, Therion or Carl Palmer.
There are discussions ongoing to see if different spellings of the same song can be included in the statistics (as there are many more such cases, especially with classical music) but this is still in development stage.

Which other TSO songs are you referring to that may need to be updated?

Lastly, for your Neil Diamon / UB40 example, if Neil Diamond plays the UB40 interpretation of his own song, you can also add this with an @Info tag.

Re: Songs of classical composers

Posted 23 Aug 2017, 2:21:15

Jethro Tull and Ian Anderson have performed Bourrée by Johann Sebastian Bach on numerous occasions. This piece is actually an adaptation of the Bach piece and also includes original material from Ian Anderson. On Tull albums, it has always been listed as Bourée. On setlists here, it is shown as Bourrée. I always thought that this site remained true to the original album listing. I think the way this song has been listed, at least as performed by Jethro Tull or Ian Anderson should be changed to “Bourée”. I realize the issue has been dealt with before, but perhaps it should be reconsidered. The piece is a jazzy re-working of “Bourrée in E minor” by Johann Sebastian Bach. The change in name reflects the jazzy re-working.

Re: Songs of classical composers

Posted 15 Sep 2017, 2:36:42

I don't remember how to create setlist prior to 1938. That was the creation of La Bohème and it happened in 1896

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/arturo-toscanini/1938/teatro-regio-turin-italy-5be227e0.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_bohème

As soon as it's done, I'll correct the whole setlist and mention all the different parts.

Last edited 15 Sep 2017, 2:44:01

Re: Songs of classical composers

Posted 15 Sep 2017, 3:31:07

Haha! I am still awaiting for a reply to my post from Aug. 22. It does not seem that I will receive one!

Last edited 15 Sep 2017, 3:32:10

Re: Songs of classical composers

Posted 15 Sep 2017, 15:08:33

I don't think they'll do anything about Bourrée because the song may be performed differently, it still remains the same.

I wanted to call the song
Fifth Movement from Suite in E minor for Lute, BWV 996

Re: Songs of classical composers

Posted 15 Sep 2017, 16:24:17

Yes, but the full name as written by Bach is “Bourrée in E minor”. On Tull recordings it is simply listed as “Bourée”. Should the listing here not remain true to the album listing?

Post Reply

You're not allowed to do this, please sign in first.